anticirclejerk | The Third

...woah. That's quite an impressive post you have, anon. Bravo for gathering it all together. I'm not even sure where to start. I'm surprised someone's even following my Plurk, though, considering I don't advertise it and only have a handful of friends on it. But feel free to follow as much as you'd like; I have no reason to lock it or delete anything, nor will I. I have nothing to hide.

I should probably preface this by saying that I... never really claimed to play 100% canon Setsuna. The headcanon page exists for a reason. I disliked the character development he received in the second season, for the most part, so I've instead developed the character in a different direction. I have provided reasons for this on several of my journal posts that you linked. You may disagree with them, and that is your prerogative. But they are there. If I have not articulated them well enough, I am more than happy to clarify.

Keep in mind also that I generally don't play in games because I enjoy exploring/experimenting with a character in musebox/meme/DMverses. I am well-aware this Setsuna would not fly in most game environments (Setsuna was in Gora for a short while, but I lost interest, so I've since idled out). As for highest quality "smut"... well, anon, that's a matter of opinion.

Tackling other points in order (forgive me if I miss some):

- I apologize if I have made anon(s) uncomfortable, but most of what I write is in a musebox or in a meme. You are free to scroll past if it bothers you. That DM thread got pretty out of hand, yeah, but I had fun, and as I recall sexual content is permitted (though I probably should have marked for it out of courtesy, that's my bad).

- I have indeed seen Gundam 00. Multiple times. I've yet to see all of the movie, though, since I find it... pretty ridiculous.

- Sorry, but I will maintain that Gundam 00 is a sexist media. If you wish to have further dialogue with me about this, feel free to reply/PM me/plurk me/whatever, and I'll detail the reasons why. Too much information for one post, really.

- While I am more accustomed to yaoi, I do enjoy threading het. It's just hard to find a female character I actually like. And yes, feel free to excuse me of more sexism; again, I can elaborate. That is simply my preference for several reasons.

- Disturbing is what I shoot for, anon. Setsuna is a disturbing character. This is canon. I can elaborate if need be on this point.

- I enjoy posting in the Gundam canon thread as I enjoy interacting with other members of this fandom. I do not pretend to be the "best" Setsuna or to represent this fandom. I have made no statements of claiming to do so. If you wish to ignore me, you are free to do so. I will take no offense.

- I do not, in fact, act like a holy authority on characterization because... I'm not. At all. Seriously. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this.

- kawaii bishounen uke is... I hope that's an exaggeration. Apparently anon has not been reading my threads as closely as I've been led to believe.

- Badly written smut fulls under the category of "YMMV" and there is little point in discussing it.

As I mentioned, I am willing to engage any anon on any particular topic you to have discuss. Just get in contact with me somehow, and I'll make the conversation happen.

And thanks for giving me a reason to wake up a little more, anons. Certainly more interesting than listening to a lecture on soft political power.

"kawaii bishounen uke is... I hope that's an exaggeration. Apparently anon has not been reading my threads as closely as I've been led to believe."

lol no, how about you read your own threads more closely? It's very evident.
Then again it's also very evident you can't see really obvious shit soooo I guess there's no point telling you.

Also whiteknighting yourself in a hate meme, yeah okay.

I will defend myself if called out, anon. If you think of that as whiteknighting, so be it.

Disappointing show all around, hate meme. But I'll still be here if you wish to discuss anything.

go on
tell us the story of how your setsuna came to be

we'd all love to know

I believe the information you're looking for is on my journal, anon. But once again, I am happy to elaborate on any points if necessary.

But I don't want to go to your journal, I want you to

as you like to say

elaborate on your points by telling me how your Setsuna has come to be what it is.

I am willing to elaborate as means of clarification for the points I have already made, anon. I see no reason to be redundant. And if you cannot put in the time to read it, as I put in the time to write it, then that gives me little incentive to extend you the courtesy of progressing the discussion.

lol ok
excuses

I'm just wanting to see you actually commit to backing yourself up without prewritten stuff but

if by defend yourself you mean make yourself look like a fucking idiot then yes you win the grand prize, and quite frankly you've dodged all the hits to your offensive headcanon with "i can elaborate" which is a cop out tbqh so please

share your tl;dr details

give us your excuses for what allows you to act like a disgusting, misogynist human being

Tackling the entirety of the headcanon in a specific post would be a little much, anon.... tl;dr, in your own words? If you have specific issues in particular, I can address those.

That is, assuming, you can remain civil. Name-calling is unnecessary.

aka dodging the subject again

if you have to clarify your own headcanon it's pretty shitty headcanon

and lmao i don't know where the fuck you think you are

Au contraire, mon ami, I am still here and perfectly willing to answer your questions. But as I explained, answering everything at once would be rather extreme. Pick a point and I'll gladly discuss it with you. Until then... well, I believe I've already addressed that.

And alas, such is the nature of hatememe. It seems I've yet to truly "cope with the circumstances".

You really think an answer from you would be acceptable by this attitude?

I... never really claimed to play 100% canon Setsuna. The headcanon page exists for a reason. I disliked the character development he received in the second season, for the most part, so I've instead developed the character in a different direction."

Canon is canon. No matter how much you dislike it, canon is canon. You, or anyone else, do not have the right to steer any canon character in a different direction only because you, or they, dislike the developments.

This is called forming an AU version, in lighter terms. In the worse terms or cases: turning ooc. You do not have the right to label him as canon!Setsuna if you are only going to barrage him with your bizarre headcanon all the way and then never regard his true developments in mind. Why would you even claim to /adore/ him if you are just going to ignore his every canon aspect and then form your own? You are not bringing him justice. You are buthering him. You are making people who respect his character feel otherwise, because of how you portray him as "disturbing" or "sex-oriented," because he is not. Nothing in canon states or hints that, it is only your own.

With how you're ignoring canon materials and refuse to acknowledge, especially the most important parts of this character: Your Setsuna does not have the right to be called "Setsuna F. Seiei," he is: "deus/desu/lisa!Setsuna F. Seiei."

My, my. I suppose anonymous is truly legion after all. I was not aware I had garnered such a fanclub.

However, I am afraid your assertion that Setsuna is not a disturbing character is... canonically incorrect, given that

1. Setsuna commits several acts of murder and terrorism throughout the entire shows under the guise of "fighting for a better world";
2. Hallucinates gruesome explosions of corpses in front of him to no affect whatsoever;
3. Joins a terrorist organization not once, but twice;
4. Imposes his will on others (while hypocritically accusing others of doing the same);
5. Kills people who could be considered allies, if they get in his way;
6. Imposes his will on the world and is seen as "heroic" for it.

And were I not somewhat exhausted from today, I could go on. As for your assertions earlier, I have considered tossing a AU label on him before. However, other than throwing him into more adult situations (i.e. sex), I disagree that his key traits have been ignored. I would appreciate some specification on this point in particular.

Canon is certainly canon, anon, but in the low pressure environments I play in, I see very little reason to enslave myself to it absolutely. Especially considering how poor the second half of Setsuna's canon was.

"I am afraid your assertion that Setsuna is not a disturbing character is... canonically incorrect"

canonically incorrect

Don't even go there. I'll repeat as it seems you're slow: Canon is canon. It's because you don't get it. Allow me to enlighten you.

1. Setsuna commits several acts of murder and terrorism throughout the entire shows under the guise of "fighting for a better world";

Yes, but that doesn't mean that he likes it. It's only because of the fact that he only knows how to fight that he uses this method to bring peace to the world. He said that himself. It's his only way and he wants to believe in him, and his allies, that they can bring peace to the world by fighting.

2. Hallucinates gruesome explosions of corpses in front of him to no affect whatsoever;

They're not hallucinations. They're flashbacks. They're what he always see in the past. When that particular thing happened, he remains calm and pensive. If one is experiencing sypthoms of hallucinations, they wouldn't be calm and pensive. They would be panicked. Like what Allelujah, Soma/Marie, and Louise is experiencing.

3. Joins a terrorist organization not once, but twice;

As I've said, it's his only way of reaching out for peace. Fighting. He fights to be able to find a way to redeem himself, not for the past, but for the future. He canonically said this to Lyle Dylandy.

4. Imposes his will on others (while hypocritically accusing others of doing the same);

He does not impose. When Saji said that he didn't want to fight, Setsuna didn't force him. What did he say? Instead, Setsuna said that he understood and that he knows that. Instead, he reached his hand out and he wanted to be the one to fight for Saji. And as Lyle Dylandy pointed it out: "You're awkward. Why didn't you just tell Saji straight that you'll fight for him?"

5. Kills people who could be considered allies, if they get in his way;

Do you even understand why Setsuna killed Anew? He killed her because 1) There was no other way. He didn't want to kill her, and he would've saved her, if only there was another way. 2) He shot her clearly because he felt that it wasn't her anymore. He couldn't explain it to Saji when questioned, but he said that, "Anew isn't there anymore." He didn't know because he wasn't aware that he's becoming an Innovator yet. He felt the actual brainwashing (via quantum brainwaves) which is why he knew Anew isn't herself anymore. There was only one choice in order to save Lyle, and he didn't hesitate. Why? Because he's still hurt about not being able to save Neil and the others. Imagine how he felt when Lyle was going to die.

6. Imposes his will on the world and is seen as "heroic" for it.

He was never seen heroic. It's stated over, and over again, in canon that no matter what victory they achieve: They will be never be acknowledged by the world. This is why they're always at space, never finding a home, never finding true happiness. This is why Marina cries for Setsuna.

With that, I'm pretty much done, as there's no real excuse to veer away from canon facts.

1. Not liking murder does not make it acceptable or the act any less disturbing, anon. "Only knowing how to fight" is also not an excuse for many of the things Setsuna has done. This is a point he should've progressed past, but does not. (Arguably he does so in the movie, but I do not take Setsuna from there.) Peace through superior firepower, as they say, is a ridiculous notion that is poked fun at throughout the series... and even considered by Celestial Being itself.

2. I believe in that particular scene, Setsuna did indeed hallucinate the people presently in front of him blowing up. That would not qualify as a flashback, technically. It was happening before his eyes. I also would not describe his reaction as "calm and pensive". He literally just... stares ahead.

3. As I said before, doing something wrong just because you don't know any better doesn't make it right. This argument does not hold water in a court of law. That is why we have the so-called "war on terrorism" - because terrorism is generally considered a universally bad thing (this could be debated, however).

4. I'm afraid that he does. Celestial Being does as a whole in attempting to guide the course of the world. You can use individual examples to the contrary, but that does not change what Setsuna's primary mission is throughout the majority of the show... to change the world through force.

5. He still killed Anew regardless, and would probably not hesitate to do so again, if he or others were threatened. Whether she was "there" anymore is irrelevant. She was once on his side. That changed. He killed her. Some of those other details you have a noted are also a little more specific than what we are told in the show (such as still being hurt about not being able to save Neil) and come across more as inferences. Which is fine... but keep in mind you are also accusing me of making inferences, too.

6. It is portrayed as the perfect magical solution to all the world's problems in the show. It is perceived as "heroic" by the audience. Your other points are correct, though.

I appreciate your insight on the topic, anon, even if I disagree.

> I also would not describe his reaction as "calm and pensive". He literally just... stares ahead.

you do realize he was EATING A FUCKING HOTDOG DUDE

WHILE CHILLING ON A BENCH

totally not calm and pensive oh yeah traumatic hotdog experiences going on here

oh wait no that would be your ali al-saachez rape headcanon that would be his traumatic hotdog experiences

you start that argument off with "i believe" which is basically saying that this is your own opinion, and you have no canon evidence that he is hallucinating. you are not allowed to diagnose a fictional character with side-effects or illnesses unless they are canonly stated to have them; in other words, you have no proof.

many of your points in this rebuttal are arguable against as stated by yourself so you're already treading on really weak ground; you're going into "morals" territory which is going to be different for every viewer, and there's nothing wrong with that so long as you don't push your own beliefs on the character or portray it in your characterization.

you're making broad, generalizing statements with no proof to back it up, and you even go so far as to say the "heroism" as "perceived" by the audience (or you, to be specific, since you cannot speak for the entire audience) is canon.

uh, no, you don't get to make that assumption.

i could go on, but there is so much wrong here; and you don't even have an hmd, so the whole "appreciation of insight and willing to listen" schtick is great, but you're not fooling anyone here. it's really a lost cause.

It's certainly become an anon party in here, that's for sure.

The canon evidence that he is hallucinating is that he's... uh... hallucinating. I wish I had a clip of that scene for you, anon. But people are exploding. In front of him. Without actually doing so in reality. I'm not really sure what else would qualify as a hallucination.

The headcanon with Ali is not a terribly unreasonable assumption to make. Sexual abuse is not unheard of in child soldier scenarios. Historically, child soldiers have even been used as sex slaves. I do not have a specific source to give to you on this, but I am currently taking a graduate level course on terrorism and insurgency, and it was a topic covered during one of our lectures.

Killing is legally a crime, anon, and one many people find disturbing, regardless of the circumstances. It is an argument entailing morality, sure, but taking a life is a terrible thing no matter how you slice it. It is never a happy event.

Given how hard that peace, love, and understanding themes were shoved into the finale, and that those things are generally seen as heroic, it is difficult to argue that the "heroic" angle is not what the writers were going for. Thus an audience that was paying attention would reasonably equate it as being heroic, though if you further inspect what actually happened, this doesn't stand up to criticism particularly well.

I do not have an HMD as I am well-aware that the way I play Setsuna is controversial. Nothing that is being pointed out to me is anything new or anything I have considered before. Therefore, it feels fairly redundant. As for appreciation of insight and willingness to listen... I am still here, anon, and still responding to other anons. That should say more than enough on that matter.

I'm going to bed soon, but I'll get to other posts later. When I have the time and the stamina, probably.

> The canon evidence that he is hallucinating is that he's... uh... hallucinating.

oh boy, bravo. flawless argument. bonus points for ellipses and use of "uh", you sound confident!

that's not canon evidence, and visual exaggerations should not ever be taken at face value in media, especially animation. it's called artistic interpretation, and i'm well aware that gundam 00 loves to incorporate this in plenty of scenes.

furthermore, you are basically saying in regards to the sexual abuse:

"i remembered this from my class so it's right".

no.

even if this information is true, this is not how you cite information. if you're going to have controversial and possibly offensive headcanon for a character, you better have your sources in order when someone calls you out on it!

you do realize that killing is not illegal in warfare, right? the moralities pertaining to that sort of thing are arguable too, therefore you should not be relying on this. also:

> though if you further inspect what actually happened, this doesn't stand up to criticism particularly well.

you're using this to stand up against criticism, yet you're also admitting it doesn't hold up very well. you're the one making things redundant here by making void arguments that you are basically tearing down all on your own.

> Nothing that is being pointed out to me is anything new or anything I have considered before. Therefore, it feels fairly redundant.

then why are you here?

> As for appreciation of insight and willingness to listen... I am still here, anon, and still responding to other anons. That should say more than enough on that matter.

on the contrary, i believe your plurk says more than enough:

Desu haters hating on the hate meme

Desu I have now clearly displayed my superiority

Desu and claimed victory

Desu in the name of Setsu-chan

Desu and just so there is no doubt I am being 100% SERIOUS IN THIS PLURK!!!

Desu no joke!!

all this tells me is that you're here to save face and defend yourself and your poor ooc characterization; you're not interested in improving, and you're not interested in playing "setsuna f. seiei".

i'm done here, but i would strongly encourage you to either begin playing beneath an "AU" label, or actually take concerns to heart and work on improving.

Please provide a complete list of the articles in your course reader and their authors and, if applicable, the titles and authors of your course textbooks. Anon can figure it out from there.

dude, not defending the person you're talking to because i know jack all about the canon, but..... yes. you can steer and develop a character in a completely different direction if you want. that's what playing in a game DOES. if i play fluffy happy character A who gets fluffier and happier all throughout canon X, and dump them in a horror game that systematically breaks them down to a shell of their former self, i can do that. that doesn't necessarily make my version OOC (though no guarantees that it's IC either), just developed.

so if this character gets pulled before certain developments happen later in canon, yeah, they have every "right" to change the course of the character's development. again, the character might be IC or OOC in the first place, in this case, i have no idea, but development different from canon is not in and of itself OOC or AU or something people ~have no right to do~

not to mention, telling people that they do not have the right to do whatever when pretending to be fictional characters on the internet just sounds like you're taking shit way too seriously

That's a different situation. Of course, it's perfectly acceptable for that, that's the point of RP. However, this is about the concrete base about the characterization itself. They're using headcanons (ie. rape, sexism, etc.) that don't have actual proof in canon. This causes an immense steering from the initial point of the character, and the canon developments themselves.

The Third

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ddddda idk how many anons are here

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ddddda or whatevs

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