anticirclejerk | The Ninth

Why are they being called the rational anon now? She admits, ADMITS to godmodding and says she doesn't like the word, but isn't going to stop the action. A mod steps in to stop it. That's not taking crit well and even if it was on a question meme, I think she's smart enough to see why someone asking if she's godmodding finds it a problem.

She does want DM to be special. If it had gotten a mods approval, she would literally have the cure to viruses (or be able to control them, depending on which one she went with) by now. That's special snowflaking.

I've not said anything until this point so if you want to call me a grudgewanker, go ahead. I'm not a bad guy for having my opinions, opinions formed based on things she's done. This isn't even everything but some things are more personal.

And making secrets isn't a mature way to handle anything. Did anybody think it's possible she's why Ozaki stopped being active? What fun would it be to sit back and watch her kill the bad guy, theend and endofcanon?

Whoa, chill. It's fixed already.

What exactly has she done personally to you?

Stop pulling assumptions out of your arse. She admitted the power is godmoddy but had no intention of actually godmodding. Notice how she has never had DM use a godmoddy power without player consent. If using a godmoddy power with player consent is still considered godmodding, I should've been kicked out of every game I've been in.

Where's your proof for her special snowflaking? Or that she wanted DM to have a cure for or control over viruses?

No, no one did. Only you. If Greedmun didn't like DM doing what she was doing in the plot (trying her best to help Ozaki with the issue in Sotoba), he wouldn't have agreed to the plot. Did you think that there are plenty of other logical reasons as to why Ozaki wasn't as active as Greed?

Hullo, I suppose I'm the 'rational' anon here. That she admits to not liking the word is good enough reason that she had and saw some issues with it. Because of this, it's not unreasonable to think that she saw some problem with it herself at that time. That could be a good reason why she's only had the character use it twice and never again. For all we know, she could have done away with the power since the last time she used it. Saying that she doesn't (didn't?) care is an assumption on Greedmun's part, as he went straight from that thread to vent on rpanons before mods could act.

I myself saw the request before it was screened by the mods, and in that thread Jade mentions that since it was an in-game development, the mods told her it did not need approval. She does not have the cure to viruses, it says so right in that thread. In that thread, she stated that the power was granted by Eris. The only 'cure' that was within its power could be in response to Eris' apples, not the DDD viruses themselves. She's had Issun gain a plethora of items, if you recall, from Kefka, as well as having him diverting from canon by exchanging a portrait of Kefka for something that made him grow tall. Her newest character was on the comm asking for a geiger counter out of all the things. If you believe her characters are not one to ask for such abilities or items from others, again, take it to her HMD. To me she appears more opportunist with her plots (that is, doesn't plan much) and posts about in-game developments rather than anything from canon. It is her characters, ICly-driven, gaining abilities and items from other community members than any OOC 'special snowflaking' on her part, and all of these 'opportunist' moments were due to in-game developments. There is nothing wrong with having characters grow from in-game developments or use game mechanics to help themselves. The only issue was that power, which she did not use without permission. The potential problem with that one power was corrected right away.

No, anon, you're making this much more personal when it is not. I'm not calling you a grudgewanker, but you should calm down and think about this coolly.

Your same logic can be applied to Greedmun, then. If he had such a problem with the plot, he could have simply called it off. He saw how slow it was moving. If you have been following the plot at all, you know it was not only her involved, but Kefka as well. From the way things were going, it didn't seem like DM's involvement would make the outcome any better. That's only from my perspective; I have no idea what Greedmun and Jade were plotting. All I do know is that they were communicating about the plot; therefore, canceling the plot for any reason could have happened by either party at any time. Both players are two of the most reasonable muns I've seen here, and I'm sure Jade would have understood if he wished to have her opt out of the plot. In actuality, I think he was enjoying the plot and developments despite its pacing.

No, making secrets is not a mature way to handle things, but neither is venting on the anoncomms. Yet both are understandable and many rpers do just that. May I reminded you that it is still only suspicion that is inconclusive, and only that.

I think I love you rational anon. Thank you for being a calm voice of reason here.

Seeing as there is already a new post, I'm not sure if anyone still has this tracked. I'll reply here anyways.

Anons are upset; their accusations of passive aggressiveness and special snowflaking usually result as personal attacks after taking this, well, personally. The real issues that should be discussed here are not p/a, ss, or the goddmodding. P/a is done away with not only a character witness statements, which involves more than one anon commenting that she behaves otherwise, but also of Jade's own assertive action: that she is someone who goes and asks for tags, cr, or threads from the muns if she is interested instead of vaguely hinting for attention, and has made an opt-out post for disinterested muns to use. Similarly, she in not ss for having IC, in-game developments involving her characters. In this regard I find her playing to be similar to Greedmun's. RPers tend to misuse the two terms anyways. Godmodding should be months old news, but I believe that the anon had a misunderstanding concerning the nature of the power granted to DM as well as Jade's reaction to the crit.

Instead, three things should be discussed here. First is the circumstantial evidence which does cast suspicion, but is ultimately inconclusive guilt or innocence. Do I think it's suspicious? Of course. Do I believe she is responsible? There's not enough proof either way. There's nothing more to it. The second is Jade's ability to receive crit. As already outlined in my previous comments, suspicions aside she has taken logged-in crit well, improved, and there was no wank made by her in the past. The last thing that should be discussed is DDD's "P/A Problem". Part of this is that frankly, if they are that scared of wank that they will not give critique, RP is not for them. The second part is avoiding muns altogether, which is something that not only Jade (and by extension BRSmun) seems to be a victim.

This latter aspect is what I find disappointing in this game at the moment, more than any wank currently going on. I'm not sure when muns started becoming more and more oocly aloof from each other enough to casually admit it as a code for (at it's very extreme, as it is in Jade's case) 'we want this person to drop'. As a player I think it would be exceedingly convenient for all parties involved to take the opportunity to simply talk to each other on opt-out posts, plotting posts, or though pm whenever a conflict arises. Avoidance results in wasted effort and time from all muns involved. So, as I have established and cited multiples times she can take crit and not make wank due to it beyond reasonable doubt (as reasonable it is to suspect her in all this), I point all anons who still have an issue to use her opt-out post. The only two who should have any reason to avoid each other for the time being are Greedmun and Jade.

Also, let's not make our game appear any worse for potential appers about being called a notoriously passive aggressive game.

I think the fact that she used it twice and never again was because of the mods. But hey, you're right, she did stop after that and past is past.

I can't say I memorized the request, I do have a few better things to do than stalk mod approval requests, but having the power to cure them was part of the request. Alter, recreate, and/or cure...I think were the words she used. When asked if there was canon reason why DM would be able to, she admitted that there wasn't. I don't want it to be the case of having to tell the mods about everything. We're adults who should be able to limit ourselves to a degree.

I've actually not taken it anywhere until now because I just don't play with her. I wouldn't have said anything until I realized that other, innocent people are being dragged into this: come defend her or you're part of the problem. I'm not saying you did this but it's not fair.

It isn't personal to me, on that level. I'm just really not sure why the people who have a problem with her playing are bad people. I don't see those anons going to people's pages and tell them that if they don't come to this discussion, they're part of the problem.

Even if her original intention of the power was to interfere with the effects of viruses, I don't recall any instance in which she's done that.

The people who are wary of her aren't bad people- it's the people who refuse to listen to reason/continue to accuse her of everything/egg her to drop that are, imo. It's already been established that there's no way to prove whether she's guilty or innocent, so no one should be concluding she's one or the other. I'm still suspicious, but that doesn't mean I'll stop playing with her. Because I do enjoy our threads.

The anons hunting down and interrogating the named suspects are different anons from other anons... if that makes any sense. Not all of them are good, not all of them are bad. Lumping them all onto one side or the other (Greedmun's side, Jade's side) isn't exactly helping much the way I see it.

No, she hasn't. The mods said no.

I can't say I ever played with her so I'm not one of those anons. I have to say it's suspicious and people will look at her with suspicion. If they don't want to play with her, that's their decision. I'm not saying not to defend her but they shouldn't be asked to play with somebody their not comfortable with. I'm sure some will play with her even with these feelings, which I'm sure is actually probably going to be more awkward for her.

No, they're not. I'll agree with you there. I'm just saying that I heard about that and that's what brought me here.

Unfortunately, I came in later. I'm not sure what Jade's or Greedmun's thoughts on this are, but I do not think that the innocent people dragged in are 'bad people'. In fact, it seems that the anons here had only the best intentions on asking these people that the first anon who casually named dropped people. If you look at one thread one anon simply suggests "why not just ask them", and proceeds to ask Lancer-mun and Issei-mun without actually contacting them. Lancer-mun and Issei-mun commented to that without being asked. The anon who did give the names apologized for giving names, and apparently thought that it was only casual speculation and did so without being on anyone's 'side'. I'm supposing they must have thought other people would begin naming others.

'Cure' for the apples, yes. For the DDD viruses? No. I believe she only had another sub-plot with the apples involving DM and Kefka, but that request was given limitations and the two did get a post or two out of it.

You're absolutely correct that it is not fair. However, the anon who began this post made the assumption that people were avoiding her, and it turns out that was right. Another anon on Greedmun's behalf assumed that the default was that everyone is against, and then called for anons on Jade's side for proof that it wasn't, saying they should ask those muns. See here: http://anticirclejerk.dreamwidth.org/2687.html?thread=6940287#cmt6940287
So, another anon who had made a sock account begins to ask all the named people. Yes, it still stands that those on Jade's end could have been the 'better anons' and ignored the request, but these discussions do turn personal. Those asked to come here do not need to, and certainly are not obligated to respond. Of course, there is no denying that the unfairness was induced by those who were against Jade to begin with.

I do find it interesting that they're willing to call people out but not do it unanonly.

I remember that it included the viruses because the mods were uneasy about that from the start. Also, why ask if she then had to admit that her character couldn't do it?

It's hypocritical. Those defending her so badly are free to show themselves too. Calling people out by name, all of which seemed to be wrong, while hiding yourself is cowardly, so says the anon commenter.

It's the power of anonymity, and the very same reason plenty of anons are calling Jade a 'bitch', admitting that they will actively avoid her, and telling her to drop all while anon and not to her face. She has offered an opt-out post as well. If others do not wish their opting-out to be public, it's easy enough to pm her instead.

The apples have virus like capabilities. The plot with Kefka was to experiment on the apples, which are Eris-grade enchantments that mimic viruses and not DDD-level of potency. So, the mods must have asked Kefka-mun, too. Kefka's a god, DM's power was given by Eris. I'm assuming from this a plot to manipulate virus-like qualities in Eris' apples was formed. If she asked about it, she was possibly seeing how much DM and Kefka would be able to succeed in their experiment and how much they would be able to change in the apples. It's true that this plot was turned down. So. She must have spoken with Kefka-mun about this, too, in which case this request not only by her, but also by Kefka-mun.

Yes, the anon requested 'proof' that others go and ask those named should be un-anon, and the one that made the sock should also be unanon. In a perfectly fearless world, there would be no anons. Remember that this entire thread is under the impression that the default assumed for players at DDD is that they are against Jade. This same impression was imposed by those against Jade. Whether most people at DDD are in support of her dropping or not I have no idea at this point. What does seem to be fact is that bias in this ACJ thread, at least, is skewed towards favor in support of Greedmun and wanting Jade to drop or be actively avoided. Hypocrisy is found everywhere on anon memes. That others become entitled to call others out or to action for whatever reason is simply an unfortunate fact.

This is a circular argument. Even those in her support admit that the evidence is suspicious. Some of us don't want to risk that. Nor should we have to. If she tags me, I'll tag back but that doesn't mean I should have to do anything I'm not comfortable with, which includes tagging her.

Right after he crited her, BRS tagged Greed on a plotting post. It went: "Jade wants to know if I can beat Greed up. Sorry, this wasn't my idea, haha". That seems more than a little strange, to me.

I can't say what the mods did or didn't do. I know they asked Jade on the thread about their abilities. Based on what Kefka and DM could do, they were allowed to experiment but fail on the apples. Jade was going to do something she admitted was out of DM's abilities if it was okay with the mods.

Yes, the suspicion still stands for the second case. But for the first case? She took crit well and improved. That alone should be enough to not hold so much doubt. I still recommend using the opt out post. It is as reasonable as harboring that suspicion in the first place. You cannot only focus on one suspicious incidence and completely ignore the one with no suspicion of wank on her part.

Plotting is continuous. I remember reading that, too. I don't have the link in front of me, but I do remember that BRSmun said Jade said it would be along the lines of coincidence. That's plotting for you. If anything, that's evidence for taking crit well by the person giving the crit, by continuing to want to plot with him. It's good evidence for Greedmun's attitude as well, that he went right back to plotting with her. BRSmun was new at the time, so she could have helped with some CR between them. In the very same crit thread in question, she also went right back to plotting with him, no hard feelings. Greedmun is capable of terminating plotting at anytime if he did not want CR.

Her abilities at the time were her own and whatever was given to her by Eris, and that is it. That's why Kefka-mun and Jade asked the mods first, stating their abilities because I'm certain the mods asked, to see if it was within both of their abilities to manipulate the powers in the apples. If they did not receive permission or seek it for herself and Kefka-mun, only then would they potentially be doing something not within their abilities. Your final statement is an assumption.

I realized long ago that the way I worded the suggestion to Greedmun then was awkward and had implications that I didn't intend to have. If you want the short story, Jade did suggest that BRS could attack Greed since Greed was already aggravating Shooter while she was in a very unstable state of mind and she had possession of DM's worldhop device.

I just want to make it clear that Shooter's actions against Greed had IC reason and that it wasn't some sort of scheme to somehow get back at Greedmun. Jade was only pointing out an IC opportunity and I made the mistake of wording the suggestion that made it seem like it had ulterior ooc motives. I'm sorry that it seemed that way.

Edited 2012-05-08 06:56 (UTC)

Was the apple request after she got the godmodding crit? I don't think she'll wank if you crit her but if after that she goes looking for MORE god powers then I wouldn't say she improved. She's either dense as a fucking brick or really doesn't care that she's munchkining.

Lol nope. The wank you're looking for is not here.

Yeah, actually, it was.

Special snowflaking? Disproven with many examples.
Passive aggressiveness? Also disproven with her own initiative actions.
Cannot improve after receiving crit? False- the first instance showed as much. The second time hasn't been given enough time.
Cannot take crit well? False. Both times she responded to crit courteously. Misinterpretation that she did not care was made by Greedmun and others.
Cannot take crit w/o starting wank? False. In fact, it was Greedmun that started wank the first time. She did not do anything to anyone during that time.
Blurs IC/OOC? False. Disproven by misinterpretation of the facts by accusers as well as in-game and ooc examples.

What more are you all going to attack her with? Every insult has been disproven not only with how she is as a person, but with examples of her actions. Everyone here is saying it's 'reasonable' to think she's suspicious, but if you just look at the evidence without emotion, you'll see it's reasonable to see that there's no clear evidence that she'll make wank again, not improve, and not take crit well. Try not to be so damn afraid. Stop being passive aggressive and use the opt-out post. That's what opt out posts are for, if you're uncomfortable with playing with her. If we're all ~rational~ adults here, all of her actions as a whole make it clear that ignoring her and wanting her to drop is taking it to an extreme and that you are letting the emotions get the better of you. She doesn't deserve this treatment.

Think of it this way, anon. Is it IC for DM to go looking for powers like that? For one thing, DDD characters in general are known to ponder the nature of viruses. For another, you must examine DM's motivation at the time this request was put in. If you do not know that either, whether or not crit was recieved and the mods did something by then is irrelevant. Yuri did something similar with investigating viruses through the apples as well. Finally, this was not only DM, but a plot with Kefka. Both Kefka-mun and Jade formed a plot and asked the mods together. The plot was turned down, but the two were allowed 'shenanigans' with the apples.

Actually, she didn't ask for permission to investigate them. She asked for permission to succeed. When the mods asked if either of them had those abilities, she had to admit that no, they didn't.

Yes, they asked that first. A mistake in wording, then. It's not only her, it's Kefkamun as well. It's likely that they and others that have heard of the plot were going to think they would succeed. After the denial, they asked what other 'shenanigans' they could do with the apples.

But WHY would she think she would succeed if she already knew neither character had those abilities?

Why would THEY think they would succeed? DM didn't have the ability, but if I recall Kefka's ability over the entire thing was ambiguous, which is why the mods needed to cofirm or deny it. She was asking on Kefka's behalf.

Kefka seemed pretty unsure when he answered. Are you saying that never came up when they talked about the plot? If you're going to ride on the coattails of someone else for something that powerful, it seems weird to try when their answer is "I don't know."

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(Anonymous) - 2012-05-08 07:14 (UTC) - Expand

The Ninth

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